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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Rebel_Storm » 01 Nov 2014, 21:43

I can't believe you don't like Rebels! To me, it shows the true side of Jedi. I mean, come on! You seriously think any number of clone troopers could kill a Jedi after the first shot missed? That's ridiculous. Jedi have the Force on their side, force pushes, force chokes, for a few, force lightning. They can, as Luke proved, hit a target blindfolded. So without blindfolds, how are they going to somehow miss deflecting the "kill shot"? With that in mind, I really thought the other way around--the original Order 66 deal was the part that doesn't make sense.
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Kalis » 03 Nov 2014, 00:30

Pretty sure there's a limit to how much you can deflect/dodge. A couple shots sure, but a couple dozen all coming at you at the same time? Even if you sensed it coming a moment beforehand you would need some pretty good luck.

Plus, I could be wrong, but I think there is something about clones that makes them harder to read so they would have had a harder time seeing it coming in the first place.
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Rebel_Storm » 03 Nov 2014, 01:43

Sure you could eventually be overwhelmed, but these guys can handle hundreds of droids, so a dozen clones isn't much different.

And assuming that all the ones at war were taken by suprise and killed. hat about the temple? There were silent "faceless" sentries, knights, masters, Anakin couldn't have killed all of them himself. Nor could the 501st seriously have committed massacre. The first Jedi that died would have been noted by the others, and several in a row would have alerted them that they were being hunted. I'm not anywhere close to being a Jedi, but if I was a Force-user in the temple, I felt others being killed, and I figured we were being hunted, I'd find safety in numbers. Find some others, barricade ourselves in, and kill clones till we could make an escape. A few might die, but the majority of the band would survive.

Assuming that all the Jedi's thought of this, and most of them joined with at least a half-dozen others, the majority of all the Jedi in the temple would have survived. It wouldn't have taken much Force meditation, clone-reading, deflecting-per-jedi to do that much.

The most ridiculous part is when the five best, strongest, most experienced, and most Force-connected Jedis arrest Palpatine and he cuts down four of them in one stroke. Windu's death at least was logical, but four in one stoke when they knew he was the Sith lord and could deduce he knew they were coming--they knew there would be resistance.

I'm just saying, when you actually think about what any Jedi should be capable of, most of the deaths no longer make a whole lot of sense.
For instance, ARC-170's are slow, unwieldy bombers. Yet a clone pilot in an ARC shot down Plo Koon's Delta-7 Anthersprite. Sure they were built to survive small, fast craft flying in circles around them, but they weren't built to shoot those small, fast craft back, so Koon should've been able to react fast enough to at least survive a controlled crash landing.

And yes, I guess clones could be harder to read than droids, but the Jedi shouldn't have been totally in oblivion, cause clones aren't all that hard either. fter all, they fall for mind tricks ever time. (Speaking of which, why didn't they have any Jedi's survive by mind-tricking the clones? I would've at least tried that.)
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Kalis » 03 Nov 2014, 02:56

This is the point of the debate when plot holes becomes an issue. Can I get a sarcastic yay!?

The temple and the arresting Palpatine parts are definitely among the plot holes I first took issue with when watching the movie. I didn't get how Palpatine simply cuts down the four guys, haven't seen that film in a while but if I remember right there wasn't even a parry. So no idea on that one but I'm pretty sure Palpatine would have won anyways even if the fight lasted longer (discounting plot armor...).

They could both partially be explained by the dark side clouding everything I guess, but it's a pretty weak explanation. Honestly, during that temple part, it would have been better/easier if they had simply had Vader order an orbital bombardment of the place with a couple cruisers. Power in numbers you say? When they cluster together they are easier to take out with just one stomp of my over-sized boot! But they didn't do that so oh well.

As for the ARC-170s, they would have lost in a straight up dogfight but that didn't happen. If I remember correctly there were two, and if there were they did a classic tag team on that Delta. If it was further away Plo Koon might have gotten away but when it opened fire it was practically right on top of him. Not much he could've done, plus the ARC-170 may be slow, but has some heavy weaponry, could probably disintegrate the Delta (which literally had zero armor because Jedi prefer maneuverability to protection) in one hit.

Last, I've never seen nor read about a mass mind trick ever. The only time you see a mind trick is against either an individual or just a couple of guys. "This is not the Jedi you are looking for" probably would require too much concentration to use on a dozen clones in the split second between them wanting to shoot you and them shooting you.

So small scale, there are issues which I prefer to attribute to poor story telling. But on a larger scale Order 66 still makes sense to me.
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Hobbie » 03 Nov 2014, 17:50

Next to Lightsaber Knees, that spinning double bladed lightsaber is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Starkill » 03 Nov 2014, 19:31

It seemed like to me that the WHOLE point of the jedi in the prequels, with Palpy and Order 66 and all, was to show that Hubris will lead to your own down fall. Much in the same way as most greek myths tried to drive that point across, which makes sense when you consider Lucas greatly ripped off greek myth (along with others) to make star wars.

I mean, the Jedi who went after Palpy were super confident that they could handle some old politician, the Jedi all across the galaxy were super confident that they were not only better than mere droids but also mere clones and were themselves the greatest warriors the galaxy had ever seen, and for the past 1000 years the entire Jedi order believed that the Sith were extinct and refused to believe that the Dark Side could still be at work in any way in any place at all. Yeah, Pride goes before a fall.

Also, screw you Hobbie that logic defying weapon suddenly adding to its own logic defying-ness by spinning was awesome!

The only problem I have with the show Rebels is that in the one episode Kanen (or however you spell his name) called his lightsaber a "Laser sword" which just instantly made me feel like I wanted to brutally kill someone.
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Caius » 04 Nov 2014, 06:52

I've recently checked out SW Rebels (saw the first two episodes) and was pleasantly surprised...I have to admit, I wasn't expecting much and feared the worst.

Some things I liked:

- time era (set a few years before The New Hope) = design of the original trilogy
- characterization and relations of the protagonists

Some things I disliked:

- cartoony look, some proportions look weird to me (in particular the look of Star Destroyers)
- diminishing threat of the empire
It seems like the imperial troops have become the new separatist droids. Just there to be tricked or get beaten up...and yes, I remember the ewoks, defeating an entire legion of the emperor's best troops. Didn't like that either.

I would have prefered an animated series with a darker tone and more realistic look but this one isn't bad...isn't good either...it's ok, if boredom spreads. Kids will like it.
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Rebel_Storm » 04 Nov 2014, 19:28

Hobbie wrote:Next to Lightsaber Knees, that spinning double bladed lightsaber is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.


I actually think that was kinda cool. Think what Grevious (who had spinning arms as it was) would have been able to do with such tech :lol:
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Kalis » 04 Nov 2014, 22:37

Caius wrote:- cartoony look, some proportions look weird to me (in particular the look of Star Destroyers)


Those Star Destroyers, I shudder whenever I think of them. Soooo ugly.
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Re: Sizer's Star Wars Rebels Rant

by Cosmic » 05 Nov 2014, 01:00

It is Star Wars. I like Star wars. It could use some nudity.
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