Discuss faction and roleplay issues in this out-of-character forum.
User avatar
User

Teradyn

Rank

Galactic Empire Command

Posts

363

Joined

27 Mar 2014, 21:06

Location

The Sovereign Nation of Texas

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by Teradyn » 28 Apr 2014, 18:15

FriendlyFire wrote:Just to be clear: the Hutt transport may have a bigger hold, but that doesn't change a damn thing: you cannot fly it as imperial. If you're still using it, change out of it. The Hutt transport is not available to recruit characters as can be seen in the Shiplist. We currently do not enforce this in the game, but I'd recommend you already get used to what you should be able to do.

For clarification, according to that ship list there does not seem to be any civilian ships that are Recruit Accessible. This would appear to restrict Galactic Empire players from using Seinar Fleet Systems character alts. Is this correct, or am I interpreting the list incorrectly?
Image

Image

Image
User avatar
User

DarkForce

Rank

Developer

Posts

829

Joined

16 Feb 2010, 17:46

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by DarkForce » 28 Apr 2014, 18:31

Civilian & Generic (every faction):
• Lambda-class T-4a Shuttle - Light Shuttle
• Light Merchant Trader - Light Shuttle
• YT-2400 - Medium Shuttle
• YT-2000 - Medium Shuttle
• YT-1300 - Medium Shuttle
• Personal Luxury Yacht 3000 - Heavy Shuttle
• Heavy Lifter - Heavy Shuttle
• Cargo Ferry - Light Transport
• Y-8 Mining Ship - Light Transport
• Mobquet Transport - Medium Transport
• Modular Conveyor - Heavy Transport
• CR90 Corvette - Medium Corvette (Optimization)
• Action VI - Light Freighter
• Box Freighter - Light Freighter
• Freighter Type K - Light Freighter
• Medium Merchant Trader - Light Freighter
• BFF-1 bulk freighter - Medium Freighter
• Freighter Type C - Heavy Freighter
• Container Transport - Heavy Freighter
• Xiytiar-class Transport - Heavy Transport
• GR-75 Gallofree Transport - Light Transport
• Freighter Type H - Light Freighter
• Imperial Transport - Medium Transport
• Freighter Type H - Light Freighter
• YB-300 Freighter Transport - Heavy Shuttle


These transports are available to civilians and all factions. A recruit level character for a faction is restricted to recruit level ships for that faction. Otherwise, to use these ships you must be a full-faction member, or have a civilian alt character, which is permissible.
Blame DarkForce, he wasn't clear about it.
User avatar
User

Sizer

Rank

Developer

Posts

954

Joined

08 Sep 2010, 23:56

Location

Oakland, California, USA

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by Sizer » 28 Apr 2014, 19:35

Ok, Final Word Time

Civilian characters have no recruit level - they just are. This includes straight civilians, and the civilian corporations. Civilians can use everything on the civilian shiplist. This, however, DOES mean that recruit level characters may not use ships off of the civilian shiplist. This is to avoid reputation exploits.

Military Factions MAY NOT use Transports or Freighters (aside from their faction Q-Ship or ships explicitly listed in their ship list). They are to employ characters from their nation's civilian corporations (Which, don't worry, will have their reputations fixed to be negative-neutral to hostile military factions). They may also contract out work to anyone, provided this does not cross the line into metagaming, e.g. having a XTS civilian to move things through Hutts space for Corellia, and ONLY for that reason. If you're going to have this kind of set up, please be able to play it reasonably. This is inherently hard to enforce, and I will be relying heavily on the faction leaders to police their own members on this point.
User avatar
User

Sovereign

Posts

382

Joined

09 Mar 2010, 00:09

Location

Connecticut, USA

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by Sovereign » 30 Apr 2014, 21:29

I intend on making private deals between factions and players.

No metagaming, it will all be IC and not used to take advantage of gaming systems. I won't permit an Imperial character to make a profit for himself or the faction flying a non-aligned civilian flag or other.

Whether or not that be legitimately paying civilians to haul our needed goods with the Imperial Faction Bank or tricking peoples to do our bidding for us I assure you respect of the rules will be required of all Imperials. Should an error in this happen contact us immediately because at no time do I want to violate any rules or have Imps violate any rules, especially in the interest of great game play and RP that arises from private contracts!
Image
User avatar
User

Sovereign

Posts

382

Joined

09 Mar 2010, 00:09

Location

Connecticut, USA

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by Sovereign » 30 Apr 2014, 21:53

Sorry for the double post, replying to Sizer.

Sizer wrote:Military Factions MAY NOT use Transports or Freighters (aside from their faction Q-Ship or ships explicitly listed in their ship list).


This seems illogical as the CR90 Military Corvette would effectively be banned for use by any military faction, though of course canonically it was used by many space navies as a warship. Banning the use of the Lambda shuttle for use by military factions? Also seems wrong. Canonically many of those transports were used by space navies, not just civilian companies. The Gallofree Transport flew in combat at the Battle of Hoth and Battle of Endor (in the movies!) on the side of the Rebel Navy but is not permitted to be used as a NR navy vessel? Recall back to games like the X-Wing series were quite often transports were part of a military operation flown by military pilots with military tags.

What I can assure you of is, if permitted you would not see those transports using Fighter squadron tags. They would be appropriately placed in the Imperial military and appropriately tagged/named. I can think of many legitimate reasons we would run transports in the Imperial Navy and not just our civilian traders. Even though an Imperial Military Transport would be at much greater risk than a Civilian (SFS for example) transport there would be times we would still make use of them. If necessary please make a basic ruling about this for all factions to follow though I expect the faction leaders to enforce this appropriately.

Anyway you gather my reasoning and point. Also I would mention when I designed that ship list years ago I intended the "Generic" transports to be permissible to be used by every faction regardless of military or not. I know much has changed in those years, including the ship list arrangements but follow my argument for why this should remain the original intent.
Image
User avatar
User

FriendlyFire

Rank

Developer

Posts

1693

Joined

15 Feb 2010, 16:14

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by FriendlyFire » 01 May 2014, 00:33

If we allow military factions to control their own trade fleet, we end up in the situation where they are completely independent from the civilian factions, thus causing a rift between the two faction types. We do not want this to happen, ergo we have to severely restrict the use of trader ships by military factions.

I'm sure you'll give me assurances that this would never happen, but I'm afraid we can't trust the entire player base to respect this. It's way too tempting.

Also, the CR90 has military variants; if it's not in the list, that's merely an oversight.
User avatar
User

Sovereign

Posts

382

Joined

09 Mar 2010, 00:09

Location

Connecticut, USA

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by Sovereign » 01 May 2014, 01:49

Military factions already do control their own trade fleet, hence the Faction Transport ship list. The problem is that the ships given on the ship list to civilians are often military ships built and flown by military factions.

Perhaps special admin approved allowances can be made, especially for RP reasons. Because it's ridiculous to say that civilians can fly a warship and the Empire and New Republic aren't permitted when they historically did. The very first starship ever seen in all of Star Wars was a CR90 flown by the Rebel Military that they don't have access to in FWs.

What if an officer wants to fly a Lambda Shuttle for RP reasons? What if some corrupt Prefect would be out flying his Luxury Yacht?

There is not an in game system preventing anyone from buying a ship not on their ship list. Only diligence through the staff and leaders here will prevent that.

The bottom line is rule breakers will always be rule breakers and punishment of those that violate rules is the only recourse of law, because law itself is not a deterrent to those that would willing break it anyway.

I would personally report any Imperial I saw misusing a transport and I would expect any "order" for Imperial troops to do so would also be followed.

At the very least the transport ships permitted to be flown by factions should be expanded to the iconic ships flown by that faction, because we already have transport ships in military factions anyway so it makes little (or no) difference.

Furthermore assurance by the faction leaders that you guys selected and have control over that these ships will not be used to build and control a military trading fleet should be trusted. At any time you witness me or my staff or the staff of any faction breaking this basic rule you have the power to drop my forum access and my GameCP access. The system is totally secure and in your protection and all we as players need is a little leeway and trust.

I would like to think you can trust me to follow all logical and fair rules at all times, lest I want to harm the community or the integrity of the game which I think is clear that I, and other leaders here do not.

A simple rule preventing the use of any transport ships for trading purposes of any Military Faction characters will have the exact same effect as banning these ships from use.

If someone fails to follow one rule they wouldn't follow the other, hence a system like the above is the same for rule breakers but more friendly to honorable players.

Trust me, I do understand your fears, much more than you know, but restricting law abiding people from certain actions does not prevent an easily committed crime. Criminals will be criminals despite any law. The law only exists to restrict the freedoms of law abiding people and punish those that break it. If the law prevented people from speeding there would be no speeding tickets issued. Clearly this is not the case.

The purpose of this argument is not to allow military factions to trade but to allow use of their iconic ships. It doesn't make good RP sense either. If the NR wanted to stop Imperial shipping would they go around slaughtering civilian traders? Sure the Empire can get away with that but can the noble Republic or Corellians?

All my personal assurances aside my argument is a factual and logical one, not based on my assurances. I know assurances mean nothing, the truth of the universe is only based in fact and logic, not emotion. How a person feels about a topic doesn't matter, only the truth matters.

Comprehension dictates that banning the use of these ships is illogical.

If you want to ban trading from military factions why give them any trade ships at all? The NR and Empire get the biggest, baddest trade ships but you want to discourage military faction trading? This is also highly illogical. How much more can a Lambda Shuttle or Gallofree unbalance things when we already have far more powerful trade ships?

There are many, many, rational, logical, legitimate reasons for military transport ships in game and no legitimate reasons for why not. The bulk of all trading in game will be done excessively by civilian characters because of the distinct advantage it provides. There is no clear advantage to making credits in game by flying under a military flag. This would mainly be for combat, or role-playing reasons. Why fly an overt hostile flag when you can be somewhat safe under a civilian flag? This is another reason why it is illogical to ban these ships. Civilian traders are already assumed under the protection of whatever local faction fleet they are in the system of.

In conclusion I ask you to consider and address each point you do not agree with. I challenge someone to explain to me why it would be sane and reasonable for the New Republic lead by Leia to agree that the wholesale mass slaughter of thousands of civilians (trade crews) is justified and fair, because you know that is going to happen in game, even if you try and set a rule banning attacks on civilians by military factions. So once again this ruling actually hurts more than helps. Don't forget, military fighter pilots are going to be flying civilian alts after-all.

I would be more than happy to work with you gentlemen to bring about a reasonable and fair system for all if that's what it takes. What we have now simply will not work.
Image
User avatar
User

FriendlyFire

Rank

Developer

Posts

1693

Joined

15 Feb 2010, 16:14

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by FriendlyFire » 01 May 2014, 01:54

The very first starship ever seen in all of Star Wars was a CR90 flown by the Rebel Military that they don't have access to in FWs.

Thanks for not reading my last line.

There is not an in game system preventing anyone from buying a ship not on their ship list. Only diligence through the staff and leaders here will prevent that.

Currently.

I'll let Sizer expand on it all, I'm not on stable enough internet to do that.
User avatar
User

Sovereign

Posts

382

Joined

09 Mar 2010, 00:09

Location

Connecticut, USA

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by Sovereign » 01 May 2014, 01:57

FriendlyFire wrote:
The very first starship ever seen in all of Star Wars was a CR90 flown by the Rebel Military that they don't have access to in FWs.

Thanks for not reading my last line.


I did, I'm talking about the cargo variant. I haven't seen either in game yet.


I'll wait for Sizer then.
Image
User avatar
User

Sizer

Rank

Developer

Posts

954

Joined

08 Sep 2010, 23:56

Location

Oakland, California, USA

Re: Character Flying Hutt IFF + HUtt Trasport working for th

by Sizer » 01 May 2014, 04:16

http://freeworldstidesofwar.com/viewtopic.php?f=172&t=2402&p=22496#p22496

I have codified as much as I could here. If there are further questions, I will continue to define the rules. Note that the shiplist has been updated to match.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign
[ Time : 0.111s | 15 Queries | GZIP : Off ]
cron